tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8356601405469434111.post3304128036827667436..comments2024-01-01T19:49:13.788-08:00Comments on The Vigil: A Conversation InterruptedVigilantehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07640246609540057997noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8356601405469434111.post-239958594956791432007-09-21T16:41:00.000-07:002007-09-21T16:41:00.000-07:00Mike could be talking about (I assume he's a c...Mike could be talking about (I assume he's a conservative Republican) his own party's position against gays, feminists, progress. They are always the ones with the visceral hatred, the venon toward our own countrymen, the absolute refusal to accept people slightly different from them in our country and keep the peace; he protests too much. A very good case of when someone is really talking about their own feelings, not yours. Vigilante, you state the case and the facts and hold our leaders responsible for their illegal actions; he generalizes. When their core values involve giving blind, moral authority to their leaders, no matter the failures of those leaders, while tearing apart their leaders' critics, they have some serious soul searching to do and we won't get anywhere trying to reason with that insane mentality.Urban Pinkhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02556606553132406807noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8356601405469434111.post-73393769122189580422007-09-20T20:10:00.000-07:002007-09-20T20:10:00.000-07:00He starts right off by mentioning the venom and ha...He starts right off by mentioning the venom and hatred on the left. Not worth arguing with this fellow, Vigilante.<br><br>The guy's full of himself.<br><br>Tell him to go blow.No. 44noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8356601405469434111.post-78301881423926817932007-09-20T20:00:00.000-07:002007-09-20T20:00:00.000-07:00I am speaking for myself, and not the Clintons, Ke...I am speaking for myself, and not the Clintons, Kerrys, or their patrons. <br><br>If this is about politics, it is not about politics-as-usual. As I said above, 20 March 2003 changed everything. On that date, Bush and Cheney succeeded in their fear mongering by terrorizing our American republic into an unprovoked war of aggression. "Regime Change", they called it. In so doing, they broke more than Iraq's pottery barn. They broke a well established and cherished mold: open societies do not war upon sovereign states unless attacked. This was also our American brand of no-first-strike, (which carried us through the darkest shadows of the Cold War's balance of terror,) that was tarnished. Deterrence not belligerence; defense not offense. Diplomacy before militarism. Why else did the USA changed its Department of War to the Department of Defense (1947)?. Under the Bush-Cheney, the Defense department has become more of an offense department, overshadowing even the department of state's mission of diplomacy.<br><br>I am sensitive when others argue that we, Americans, have stake in the future of the Middle East. Believe me, I am. We have a geo-political stake. And not only us. We have tradionally been concerned about the stability and protection of this area as a source of petroleum, the life blood of modern international economies. That's why I fervently supported the first Gulf War.<br><br>But Americans are also stake holders in the American legacy of non-aggression, of respect for state sovereignity, international organizations and law. These aren't quaint notions of the 18th century; these are the bedrock of international order and stability in the 21st century. Their sacrifice in the 20th century led to catastrophes from which we are still trying to sort out today.<br><br>So, when Mick says I am more concerned about resolving the political civil war in my own country than the 'liberty' of the Iraqi people, I'll just say, "Well, yeahhhh?" The occupation is about oil and military bases. This political civil war stateside is about our national soul.Vigilantehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07640246609540057997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8356601405469434111.post-27540833308806109072007-09-20T09:54:00.000-07:002007-09-20T09:54:00.000-07:00Mick says:It must be a heavy burden to bear: a vis...Mick says:<br><br><i>It must be a heavy burden to bear: a visceral hatred of the political opposition, distrust of one's own government, and such venom toward your own countrymen that you would prefer a civil war at home to the liberation of the Iraqi people.</i><br><br>The chattering classes in Washington are awash the wake of the September reports on progress--or the lack thereof--in Iraq . The war of words has already begun. Churning the Petraeus and Crocker reports and spinning the reports from the various think tankers and politicians just returned from their latest day trip to the Green Zone, hard-liners and soft-liners have already announced their willingness to accept or, more likely, reject any report that does not conform to their preconceived notions.<br><br>In this rush to condemn without considering the unintended consequences of a US withdrawal, Americans seem to have their eyes more on the 2008 US presidential and congressional elections, and none on Iraq. It is a point not missed by embattled Iraqi politicians and Iraqis exhausted by the four-year siege on their security and their country's existence.<br><br>American politicians have little interest in Iraq as a failed state or as a successful state--either way, they see risk. In Iraq, the struggle is all about identity and power. In the US, it is all about the next election. But, regardless of how one feels about the reasons we went to war in Iraq, the consequences of a precipitate withdrawal cannot be ignored.Anvendelighttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13087681997457341372noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8356601405469434111.post-90209598042997159012007-09-19T08:29:00.000-07:002007-09-19T08:29:00.000-07:00Beach Bum made me spit out my coffee in laughter. ...Beach Bum made me spit out my coffee in laughter. Thanks, BB!<br><br>And thanks, Vigilante, for flying the flag for those of us too lazy to go to toe to toe with our "worthy opposition." :)Ehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17587216740731401718noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8356601405469434111.post-40659785417689414152007-09-19T06:24:00.000-07:002007-09-19T06:24:00.000-07:00OJ? I'm drinking my orange juice at this very ...OJ? I'm drinking my orange juice at this very moment. Why is it in the news?Blogging4Foodhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04518401800031515499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8356601405469434111.post-88253797486894134002007-09-19T06:10:00.000-07:002007-09-19T06:10:00.000-07:00Come on guys all this depressing stuff is sooooo y...Come on guys all this depressing stuff is sooooo yesterday. OJ is back in the news, get with the program.Beach Bumhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11000824454124236774noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8356601405469434111.post-20904890206702344712007-09-18T22:17:00.000-07:002007-09-18T22:17:00.000-07:00You're right, C.W., Mick is a good guy. A good...You're right, C.W., Mick is a good guy. A good American. He's shown a willingness to engage. <br><br>And thank you for your readership. Please comment again. I've been to your site, off and on, hoping for new posts. I think maybe we're both working too hard, given our age.Vigilantehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07640246609540057997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8356601405469434111.post-44326986972860337562007-09-18T18:24:00.000-07:002007-09-18T18:24:00.000-07:00Vig, I've been reading your blog since April &...Vig, I've been reading your blog since April '06 and have never been disappointed. This addition is no exception.<br><br>I'm sure Mick's a really nice guy, you know, a regular American. That said, I have no compunction about kicking a Republican while they're down. We must end the madness. So Kick Ass Bro.Cold War Vethttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01906737640888513026noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8356601405469434111.post-15292158336215165962007-09-18T17:32:00.000-07:002007-09-18T17:32:00.000-07:00The next time you see him, ask Mick why he hates A...The next time you see him, ask Mick why he hates America.Borishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13887019984342458931noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8356601405469434111.post-29920456405134789982007-09-18T08:38:00.000-07:002007-09-18T08:38:00.000-07:00vigilante, I assume you purposely decided not to n...<b>vigilante</b>, I assume you purposely decided not to name the site.... and, indeed, it doesn't matter.<br><br>But I do really hate sites that elect to screen replies before they are posted or censor them afterwards (except for spam or extreme abusive (slanderous) attacks or being horribly off topic).<br><br>I, frankly, like to encourage those who disagree witn me.<br><br>Prior to posting censorhip eliminates the possibility of "conversation and debate."<br><br>I like your policies here on The Vigil that actually encourage debate and conversation, even though I occasionally get a real drubbing from the group.the WIZARD, fkaphttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18171655256407149176noreply@blogger.com