tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8356601405469434111.post6370959996921647574..comments2024-01-01T19:49:13.788-08:00Comments on The Vigil: Regime Change: Time to Get Real About World OrderVigilantehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07640246609540057997noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8356601405469434111.post-22471544092818448402009-10-21T09:45:21.631-07:002009-10-21T09:45:21.631-07:00Well said Stella.
Will makes a fine point too.
...Well said Stella. <br /><br />Will makes a fine point too.<br /><br />What finally kicks into my mind is Oso’s inclusion: the White Man’s Burden… <br />The shock in this policy wonking is the idea of that we must impose order onto / into societies. I’m just a lost Star Treker, wondering if the maximum directive is being followed… and of course, it can not. How can it be when cultures / Peoples are expanding beyond their boarders with the ‘need’ to preserve their ‘existence’? Basic arguments of war, since god was a puppy…or isn’t some god the author of war? The simple human dilemma of existence is the smoldering corpse on every battlefield. Like the battle between the us and the government to obtain HCR. Consistently spilling over the boarders… 700 miles at sea Somalian pirates took a Chinese tanker. Soros’s example of COIN = American evangelic fiscal opportunists who have anchored their fear dogma into rural Africa through indigenous franchised ‘pastors’ who are collecting fees from the starving and poor in villages with ‘witch exorcisms’ and the savage defilement / murder of children! Further robbing culture! We continue to crush to death what I think, Stella, is the only ‘purity’ in this wonking: the organic evolution of cultures, of a People. Like bullies on the playground… whomever has the ability to enforce his / her will over the rest… demonstrative foreign policy for every ‘world power’. <br /><br />We just keep un-learning how to share with each other. Simplistic, I admit. <br /><br />Ta Vig... for the education!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16419040049480437384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8356601405469434111.post-87158820016721355652009-10-19T09:52:08.171-07:002009-10-19T09:52:08.171-07:00Certainly, neither Bush nor Cheney read Kaplan'...Certainly, neither Bush nor Cheney read Kaplan's review or Huntington's analysis on policy problems about developing nations. Bush isn't smart enough to read these analyses, and Cheney didn't care—he was only in Iraq for the money. And, contrary to the ideals of the original Republican party, were more involved in <b>increasing</b> the power of government.<br /><br />Damn good comment, Will.<br /><br />The <a rel="nofollow"><i>Washington Post</i></a> notes Bush II tripled direct humanitarian and development aid to the world's most impoverished continent since taking office and recently vowed to double that increased amount by 2010—to nearly $9 billion.<br /><br />The <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/17/george-bush-aids-africa" rel="nofollow"><i>Guardian</i> </a> notes <i>he rarely talks about it.</i><br /><br />Really? Why?<br /><br />There's a <i>proviso</i> to his "good" acts in Africa, according to <a href="http://www.socialistreview.org.uk/article.php?articlenumber=10293" rel="nofollow"><i>Socialist</i></a>: <i>a year since the US defence department set up the new Africa Command (Africom) to direct US strategic interests on the continent... reflects the renewed importance of African resources, particularly oil, for the US. As part of this project Bush is desperate for new allies on the continent to collaborate in the scramble for Africa. </i><br /><br />That scenario seems more likely than his much-praised assistance to Africa—another attempt to further Colonization and increase America's stronghold on oil interests throughout the world.<br /><br />This comment particularly struck me: <i>Those who insist on purity will have no allies.</i>. Of course. How does one define purity? Who can make that determination for others? Wouldn't that concept differ from culture to culture? And, if America continues its quest for what I can only term as "Colonialism," doesn't that run counter to the reason we fought a Revolution?<br /><br />I obviously need to read more of Huntington's writings. Thanks for posting this thought-provoking article, Vig.Stella by Starlighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16385761338190877425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8356601405469434111.post-42048906304774131822009-10-15T12:38:19.383-07:002009-10-15T12:38:19.383-07:0067% Afghans support our presence? Rubbish! Whose o...67% Afghans support our presence? Rubbish! Whose or what poll are you citing? What do you think they did? Call all residential phone numbers? Door-to-door census-taking with clipboard and pencils? What is your wild-eyed fantasy? 67% ????<br />You are 100% fucking crazy!Borishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13887019984342458931noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8356601405469434111.post-1079698798303628402009-10-15T08:34:44.239-07:002009-10-15T08:34:44.239-07:00We are hardly considered aliens in Afghanistan. M...We are hardly considered aliens in Afghanistan. More than 67% of the population supports our presence in that country. Curiously, but not surprisingly, Pakistan is considered one of the most anti-American nations on earth. It is no wonder al Qaeda has moved the bulk of their operations to this nuclear power.<br /><br />As to Kaplan, I agree with RZ in that he writes like a neo-liberal. I rarely agree with anyone who can be characterized with a "neo" in front of their affiliation or cause, and this is not exception.Kentucky Rainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16753739401363847764noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8356601405469434111.post-36638611282076673752009-10-15T08:22:33.321-07:002009-10-15T08:22:33.321-07:00Yeah, good point Will. They haven't gotten the...Yeah, good point Will. They haven't gotten the memo. Yet.Vigilantehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07640246609540057997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8356601405469434111.post-81871333265475923322009-10-14T22:59:13.757-07:002009-10-14T22:59:13.757-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Vigilantehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07640246609540057997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8356601405469434111.post-49977344446378682872009-10-14T21:23:02.520-07:002009-10-14T21:23:02.520-07:00good one Will !good one Will !Osohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09513535195785731541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8356601405469434111.post-61387118893966415742009-10-14T20:19:20.682-07:002009-10-14T20:19:20.682-07:00Monarchies most likely to develop liberal institut...Monarchies most likely to develop liberal institutions????? The Saudi Royal Family evidently didn't get the memo on that one.Will "take no prisoners" Harthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02315659209094683602noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8356601405469434111.post-88396827762971066712009-10-14T18:39:25.878-07:002009-10-14T18:39:25.878-07:00the idea of "imposing democracy" is some...the idea of "imposing democracy" is something I have a real problem with. It's like saying "imposing financial assistance" on someone.A person in financial need will gladly accept a grant or a loan on good terms,that same person may refuse or refuse to pay back a loan shark who rips them off.<br /><br />There would be no need to "impose democracy" on most societies.Other than those who desire a religious theocracy,having a choice of leaders appeals to most societies.<br /><br />The last thing the US wants is a democracy in any country whose resources or markets we desire. Because they will elect leaders who will do what is best for their countrymen rather than US multinationals. <br /><br />What we like is a managed democracy, which does what is best for the US but gives an air of legitimacy to the whole affair.<br /><br />Invading and occupying a country,shooting people down in the street like dogs and exercising divide and rule (Shia vs Sunni,Hindu vs Muslim,Pawnee vs Lakota),breaking up any non-US approved local elections at gunpoint-then holding elections between US approved candidates during a military occupation-is not "imposing democracy". <br /><br />It's imperialism. You don't have to force people to be free. you just have to leave them the fuck alone and let them find their own way away from Ottoman/British/French/US/Israeli imperialism.Osohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09513535195785731541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8356601405469434111.post-30552974212210201732009-10-14T07:20:31.095-07:002009-10-14T07:20:31.095-07:00You didn't need to mention the Paki nukes! Li...You didn't need to mention the Paki nukes! Like walking in mid polysci 206. Some very erudite thinking on all sides here! TC's point per cultural growth clings to my mind. You really can not impose / however; I see this as another argument for exiting Afghanistan. And with that, I agree.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16419040049480437384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8356601405469434111.post-49608567081373172172009-10-14T06:58:49.879-07:002009-10-14T06:58:49.879-07:00Yes! I did deliberately scrap that sentence,
In t...Yes! I did deliberately scrap that sentence,<br /><br /><em>In this regard, even counterinsurgencies can be beneficial, providing physical protection to a subject population, and overseeing basic infrastructure projects—in effect, serving as the military arm of foreign aid.</em><br /><br />This is an abomination. For us to be shouldering and soldiering COINs around the world, especially in the Islamic world at the same time our pals are amuck in Palestine, is totally counterproductive. We are the illegitimate alien force to the people.<br /><br />Look at the real world, my fellow Americans. Take this from today's <a href="http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-10-13/start-from-scratch-in-afghanistan/?cid=hp:beastoriginalsR2" rel="nofollow">Daily Beast</a>:<br /><br /><em>The ultimate goal of the U.S. administration in Afghanistan is to defeat al Qaeda and the Taliban, not only in Afghanistan but also in neighboring Pakistan. To succeed, <strong>the U.S. needs a legitimate and functional government in Kabul</strong> that provides justice, security, and basic services to a population that, at present, feels disenfranchised from the political process. The public has lost faith in the Afghan government and the coalition forces. They no longer believe that either is able to protect them from the Taliban.</em><br /><br />That's behind all this foolish transplanting of Western electioneering with its purple thumbs, hanging chads, voting frauds, etc. We're trying to put over on Afghans that we our presence among them is legitimate by bringing them our 'elections'? <br /><br />Afghanistan has had its own form of town council meetings, <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loya_jirga" rel="nofollow">loya jirga</a>, for longer than our USA has been the USA. Afghanistan should be left alone, more or less, to find its own path out of Chaosistan. <br /><br />All efforts would be invested in a Marshall Plan for Pakistan - I didn't say troops - which is higher on the international food chain. Did any one look on the failing states chart above (you have to click on it!)? Pakistan is at least on the chart. Afghanistan is off the charts, literally. <br /><br />And, did I mention that the Pakis have nukes?Vigilantehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07640246609540057997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8356601405469434111.post-17224963159240372742009-10-13T10:23:21.204-07:002009-10-13T10:23:21.204-07:00The oroblem with both sides in this debate is that...The oroblem with both sides in this debate is that neither democracy nor stability can be imposed from the outside over the long term. Cultures grow in their own ways and in their own time. For the US, the best role is to use our example and economic power to encourage others to follow our example, something we could not do under Bush and the GOP.TomCathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11397335545286040472noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8356601405469434111.post-57375574677623673882009-10-13T08:09:13.516-07:002009-10-13T08:09:13.516-07:00Vigil tried to sneak Kaplan by his sophisticated ...Vigil tried to sneak Kaplan by his sophisticated readership by putting on as favorable spin as possible. In order to do so, he deliberately suppressed Kaplan's 2nd para: <br /><br /><em>A major policy goal for the United States, therefore, is to try to reduce instability by building or bolstering institutional capacity in these countries, especially in those areas most tormented by violence or extreme underdevelopment. All around the world, for U.S. troops and civilian foreign aid workers alike, the quest for stability is paramount. In this regard, even counterinsurgencies can be beneficial, providing physical protection to a subject population, and overseeing basic infrastructure projects—in effect, serving as the military arm of foreign aid.</em><br /><br />The last sentance here is specifically egregious: COIN strategy employed by Christian-American boots-on-the-ground on Islamic turf promises the exact opposite of stability.Soros' Proxyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04474800402465417916noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8356601405469434111.post-83099800237822714332009-10-13T07:28:53.217-07:002009-10-13T07:28:53.217-07:00kaplan is a neolib. he is a senoir fellow for Cent...kaplan is a neolib. he is a senoir fellow for Center for a New American Security, which imo; is the neolib arm of the AEI. these are all israel firsters. old cold war dino's who insist on constant encroachment on russia and china. they are globalists, occupiers, and colonizers. these guys never met a dictator they never liked. they will go in under the guise of freedom, and democracy. while all along raping and pillaging for natural resources. THEY are the problem, not the countries that are on their target list.Tao Dao Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16229628652152584292noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8356601405469434111.post-27244298008148473362009-10-13T01:00:05.206-07:002009-10-13T01:00:05.206-07:00...it recognizes, as did Hobbes long ago, that aut...<i>...it recognizes, as did Hobbes long ago, that authority-even of a brutal kind-is preferable to none at all.</i><br /><br />Its easy to wax longingly for a humanistic, progressive, warm and fuzzy government that looks after everyone from cradle to grave observing human rights. But when the local bandit, drug lord, or warlord kills your children and rapes the wife any authority that puts a stop to that starts to look good.<br /><br />I don't know but I've heard enough that one of the reasons the Taliban is resurgent is because while they are crazed thugs they at least offer some sort of stability. as compared to the current "national" Afghan government.Commander Zaiushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11000824454124236774noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8356601405469434111.post-87033603701611237332009-10-12T21:15:15.272-07:002009-10-12T21:15:15.272-07:00Vigil,
I was able to read a couple paragraphs befo...Vigil,<br />I was able to read a couple paragraphs before realizing this was a somewhat more modern version of White Man's Burden. I had to quit reading at "Idealistic approach". <br />Typical Cold Warrior. Crushing nationalism for pro-US military dictatorships,eventually morphing into managed democracies working for the benefit of our multinationals.<br />This Kaplan guy could have been a speechwriter for George Bush. Or Obama.Osohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09513535195785731541noreply@blogger.com