tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8356601405469434111.post6595043798715968796..comments2024-01-01T19:49:13.788-08:00Comments on The Vigil: Obamastan: Where New & Promising Presidencies Go to FailVigilantehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07640246609540057997noreply@blogger.comBlogger35125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8356601405469434111.post-49797717736195942532010-01-14T18:50:42.955-08:002010-01-14T18:50:42.955-08:00YES BEACH!!!!YES BEACH!!!!Kentucky Rainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16753739401363847764noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8356601405469434111.post-71506884802524909562010-01-12T16:38:47.550-08:002010-01-12T16:38:47.550-08:00I can understand your dilemma, Vig. Being on the ...I can understand your dilemma, Vig. Being on the team when it goes astray is a hardship. I'm of the same mind as you on this issue. I'm not abandoning the bus, but I sure hell am hanging on the side! LOL I do think it's important to stay supportive of the President as the President, while I don't have support all of his policies. I like you post... as usual. Information that broadens my understanding. :-)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16419040049480437384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8356601405469434111.post-81581757268798147902010-01-10T20:31:30.697-08:002010-01-10T20:31:30.697-08:00"The buck stops with me." That part of t..."The buck stops with me." That part of the speech, while obviously not original, was very important. This, in that it showed 1) resolve and 2) leadership. He also didn't blame Bush and/or throw the Dutch under the bus (something that some of his more shameless on-line supporters are doing in spades). As to whether we call it a war or not, I really don't give a shit. I just want to kill as many terrorists (yes, another word that I'm reasonably flexible with) as we can without creating more. And, yes,that's where I DO part with the President, his extra large footprint in Afganistan, etc..Will "take no prisoners" Harthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02315659209094683602noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8356601405469434111.post-54907928330611396362010-01-10T10:55:04.104-08:002010-01-10T10:55:04.104-08:00Screw it, I blame the American people on this situ...Screw it, I blame the American people on this situation who regularly refuse to break away from their daily dose of reality shows, video games, and entertainment news to actually learn and listen about what is going on. <br /><br />With such short attentions spans it damn easy to fall into five-minute sound bite traps where such words as "War", "Sissy", "socialist", and any number of others words that are focus group tested to have the greatest impact.<br /><br />Obama ain't perfect and he has made some mistakes but with us lefties almost making him a messiah and the right opposing him even breathing the guy is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.Commander Zaiushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11000824454124236774noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8356601405469434111.post-79256269229730641502010-01-10T09:25:28.102-08:002010-01-10T09:25:28.102-08:00I'm also with Messenger on this one!!I'm also with Messenger on this one!!Kentucky Rainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16753739401363847764noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8356601405469434111.post-84171314225414460592010-01-09T17:11:27.595-08:002010-01-09T17:11:27.595-08:00VIG; I cannot prove that OBL is dead. But, I ferve...VIG; I cannot prove that OBL is dead. But, I fervently believe he is dead, and has been dead for some time. Probably even before 2004. <br />Forward the clock to NOW. The "Taliban" controls 80% of Afghanistan. Will we have to sooner or later negotiate with the vermin Taliban? <br />We are not the "socially redeeming" police of the world. It is their country, and it is their fight. NOT OURS. The Taliban will eliminate the 100 A/Q that are left in Afghanistan if we left yesterday.Tao Dao Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16229628652152584292noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8356601405469434111.post-42623048063440054632010-01-09T17:11:12.616-08:002010-01-09T17:11:12.616-08:00I stand by the "cowtowing" statement Mad...I stand by the "cowtowing" statement MadMike. The right wing talking heads got to the President with their nonsense aboutObama not saying "War on terror" enough to their liking.<br /><br /> Of course we know that nothing Obama does short of delivering the Saviour from the Virgin Mary would make these fools happy. Then again, that would piss them off because a black man had his hands on a lady's privates.<br /><br /> There;s just no pleasing these jokers.Joe "Truth 101" Kellyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08875151516978133598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8356601405469434111.post-37511435964533506792010-01-09T16:53:44.128-08:002010-01-09T16:53:44.128-08:00R-Zone, I'm with Messenger on this. This link ...R-Zone, I'm with Messenger on this. This link establishes nothing. Mullah was stonewalling. It was better to pulverize the the Taliban than be caught negotiating with vermin. There never have been any socially redeeming qualities attached to the Taliban. Not then. Not now. <br /><br />The only problem with what Bush did was Bush himself. I can't prove it, but I fervently believe Gore would have gotten bin Laden.Vigilantehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07640246609540057997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8356601405469434111.post-71262142493634095172010-01-09T16:32:23.184-08:002010-01-09T16:32:23.184-08:00@Reality Zone-Thanks***
I saw the related Frontlin...@Reality Zone-Thanks***<br />I saw the related Frontline doc when it aired on PBS, I'm glad they've put it all online.<br />Thanks again- <br />-SJSJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17181694732531476160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8356601405469434111.post-74906137339595654692010-01-09T16:02:26.322-08:002010-01-09T16:02:26.322-08:00MESSENGER; Try this one.
http://www.guardian.co....MESSENGER; Try this one. <br /><br />http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2001/oct/14/afghanistan.terrorism5Tao Dao Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16229628652152584292noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8356601405469434111.post-54694059481447435532010-01-09T15:45:15.634-08:002010-01-09T15:45:15.634-08:00MESSENGER: LOL Not to worry i am waaaaay left of y...MESSENGER: LOL Not to worry i am waaaaay left of you. Mullah Omar asked for proof of OBL'S complicity in 9/11. He was never given that proof.Tao Dao Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16229628652152584292noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8356601405469434111.post-82574436593381360052010-01-09T15:41:06.853-08:002010-01-09T15:41:06.853-08:00SJ; Try this one. Remember the baby incubators in ...SJ; Try this one. Remember the baby incubators in Kuwait? The Kuwaiti ambassadors daughter. Here are the shadows behind the 91 invasion. <br /><br />http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/gulf/script_a.htmlTao Dao Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16229628652152584292noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8356601405469434111.post-56320282757211978842010-01-09T15:35:45.867-08:002010-01-09T15:35:45.867-08:00Leftwingers are defined as anyone to the left of m...Leftwingers are defined as anyone to the left of me.Messengerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12703434191163556292noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8356601405469434111.post-92198182404408299772010-01-09T15:35:05.564-08:002010-01-09T15:35:05.564-08:00Reality Zone, you will never convince me that Mull...Reality Zone, you will never convince me that Mullah Omar was close to turning Osama over to anyone for 9-11. That was just the feebly-offered mythology invented by the leftwingers to argue against USA's invasion of Afghanistan.Messengerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12703434191163556292noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8356601405469434111.post-28363611098447395802010-01-09T15:13:12.979-08:002010-01-09T15:13:12.979-08:00@Reality Zone
Thanks for that link-
It's all ...@Reality Zone<br />Thanks for that link- <br />It's all just a bunch of maffias in the end isn't it?<br />You could practically re-film Scorsese's "Good Fellas" set it in the Middle East and just cast Saddam Hussein, King Fahd, George HW Bush, and Osama Bin Laden lookalikes and it would be essentially the same tale.<br />-SJSJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17181694732531476160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8356601405469434111.post-85443680905498841812010-01-09T14:41:40.543-08:002010-01-09T14:41:40.543-08:00Here is the transcript of the conversation between...Here is the transcript of the conversation between Glaspie and Sadam. <br /><br /> http://chss.montclair.edu/english/furr/glaspie.htmlTao Dao Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16229628652152584292noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8356601405469434111.post-74714822759555081882010-01-09T14:39:19.553-08:002010-01-09T14:39:19.553-08:00One clue to the 91 invasion of Iraq is [April Glas...One clue to the 91 invasion of Iraq is [April Glaspie] our ambassador to Iraq. Her conversation with Sadam 8 days prior to his invasion of Kuwait. She basically gave him the green light.<br /><br /> OBL and his A/Q were also very connected with the Muslim Brotherhood, and the Wahabbi sect in Saudi Arabia. Sudan was ready to give up OBL, but we did not take him. Mullah Omar was ready to turn him over, but we did not take him.Tao Dao Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16229628652152584292noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8356601405469434111.post-84540432316651663632010-01-09T14:15:45.888-08:002010-01-09T14:15:45.888-08:00@Vig,
--and again, there's the thing with the ...@Vig,<br />--and again, there's the thing with the U.S. military base just miles near Mecca and Medina.<br />It apparently drove Bin Laden over the edge.<br />-SJSJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17181694732531476160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8356601405469434111.post-88718375264744756062010-01-09T14:12:45.615-08:002010-01-09T14:12:45.615-08:00@Vig,
I'll go with John Miller's appraisal...@Vig,<br />I'll go with John Miller's appraisal of the situation anytime over anyone else's, since he actually risked his life to go talk to this maniac Osama Bin Laden and had the balls to insist he be able to tape it all.<br />According to Miller and others, the general but rarely uttered consensus is that Bin Laden was extremely popular, "too popular" for the House of Saud's liking. When he insisted to them that he should be not only be providing their defense -but leading it-, it probably scared the shit out of King Fahd. Miller, no longer a reporter and now here at home with the FBI, as well as others in the CIA have said the Saudi government could not afford having Bin Laden "become as powerful as he was popular." <br />The House of Saud went to their old buddies from the Carlyle group and got help from someone they could be sure had no interest in deposing them: President George HW Bush. Bin Laden called the House of Saud "infidels" and "Americans" for going to the United States, and King Fahd'd had enough out of him. They turned around and put a price on Bin Laden's head, Bin Laden then went underground and soon after he'd be targeting Americans almost exclusively. <br />I can't say that his concerns over Palestinians was sincere or not, either scenario is as likely. The guy is fairly committed, crazy, religious nut, but not without his hypocrisies: he accepted weapons and millions of dollars, and other assistance from the CIA while he fought the Soviets in the 1980s and by all accounts appreciated the help...<br />That was then.<br />-SJSJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17181694732531476160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8356601405469434111.post-76228594291918489862010-01-09T13:35:53.005-08:002010-01-09T13:35:53.005-08:00I don't know that he is "cowtowing,"...I don't know that he is "cowtowing," as much as he is listening to both sides of the argument. Regardless Truth, you are well named my friend:-)Kentucky Rainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16753739401363847764noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8356601405469434111.post-66818598757312664212010-01-09T11:14:11.450-08:002010-01-09T11:14:11.450-08:00Great discussion and I've said all along how t...Great discussion and I've said all along how the reactionaries are controlling the debate. Tea baggers have the republican party as their hostage. Obama is being forced to used phrases like "war on terror" so the righties won't call him a sissy. Much like the lead up to the Iraq invasion. Democrats and republicans alike had to line up in favor of war so they wouldn't be called soft on terror or whatever. I wonder if the reactionaries will manipulate us into another invasion of a country that is no threat.<br /><br /><br /> I'm still with MadMike on patience. My patience is wearing thin already. It may be gone long before the surge timeline is complete because our President is slowly cowtowing to the chicken hawks that demand tough talk.Joe "Truth 101" Kellyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08875151516978133598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8356601405469434111.post-33214711701724404272010-01-09T10:39:46.662-08:002010-01-09T10:39:46.662-08:00LOL on the Vigilante footnote and we are, for once...LOL on the Vigilante footnote and we are, for once, in TOTAL AGREEMENT on the Sea Shepherd and of course those cool Charles Bronson movies, and of course, Liam Neeson in TAKEN!! Wait. How about Clint Eastwood in FORGIVEN. How about....Sorry Vigil. I got carried away...Kentucky Rainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16753739401363847764noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8356601405469434111.post-27254299987802848052010-01-09T10:02:37.484-08:002010-01-09T10:02:37.484-08:00Thanks for the link, SJ. I will certainly follow i...Thanks for the link, <b>SJ</b>. I will certainly follow it up. Some one (a conservative) has pointed out in these pages that OBL initially cared not a whit about Palestine. It was Saudi <b>national</b> interests he was obsessed with. Your analysis is convincing: General Osama bin MacArthur went bat shit crazy when his offer of foreign fighters was declined in favor of Bush's and Thatcher's foreign fighters. Is that the way it was?Vigilantehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07640246609540057997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8356601405469434111.post-16803632703562454222010-01-09T09:26:09.407-08:002010-01-09T09:26:09.407-08:00@Vig, Oso,
If you ever get a chance to read that J...@Vig, Oso,<br />If you ever get a chance to read that John Miller interview with Bin Laden, it's pretty illuminating, here's a link to the actual transcript:<br /><br />http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/binladen/who/interview.html<br /><br />although if you can find the video on Youtube somewhere I recommend watching that also, but read it first...<br />-Everybody tends to forget that this asshole (Bin Laden) has an actual political platform, and specifically he has very concrete ideas about "redress" in actual numbers of American lives. He is no joke. He is a dedicated and violent fundamentalist and the US placing a military base near Mecca in 1991 sent him over the edge. This lunatic had no problem with US support when he was fighting the Soviets in Afghanistan.<br />-SJSJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17181694732531476160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8356601405469434111.post-66228461328458277652010-01-09T09:16:42.483-08:002010-01-09T09:16:42.483-08:00Thanks for your POV on this, SJ!Thanks for your POV on this, <b>SJ</b>!Vigilantehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07640246609540057997noreply@blogger.com